Crozeus
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Who has what?Ok, so I want you guys to tell me which console you have.
I don't want people messing up the votes if they prefer one to the other, but don't actually own them.
So I will include a none.
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Journey
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I have them all... I gots da monies.
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Lord Invictus
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PS3 and PC.
Former PS2 addict.
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Jiub
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I've got a 360, but no live.
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Scion
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PSWii and PC
I will never buy a Microsoft console because they are killing PC gaming. Thanks to console owners I won't get to play Dragon Age for another 6 months.
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Jiub
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Ah, but maybe PC gaming is getting killed because a better medium for playing games has been found.
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Scion
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| Jiub wrote: | | Ah, but maybe PC gaming is getting killed because a better medium for playing games has been found. |
Comprising controls, difficulty, and longevity is a better medium? Or just a lazier one?
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Dakoth
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Upgrade a PC every month, or upgrade a console every 4 years, You decide. PC's are just plain more expensive and more inconvenient and clunky.
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Jiub
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| Scion wrote: | | Comprising controls |
What do you mean by that? If you are talking about remotes then I'd have to say that 360 remotes are the best. You can have a difference of opinion there though.
I don't see it being any more difficult than using a PC. You don't even have to install the games.
I fail to see why longevity is a bad thing.
| Quote: | | Or just a lazier one? |
Maybe, but a lot of the best inventions out there are centered around convenience, which in effect is laziness as it cuts out steps.
| Quote: | | Upgrade a PC every month, or upgrade a console every 4 years, You decide. PC's are just plain more expensive and more inconvenient and clunky. |
True, but you have to worry about "the red rings of death" with an xbox. They don't always last that full 4 years. That would be my only complaint against xbox, a computer does usually last a longer time.
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Darth Samuel
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| Scion wrote: | | Jiub wrote: | | Ah, but maybe PC gaming is getting killed because a better medium for playing games has been found. |
Comprising controls, difficulty, and longevity is a better medium? Or just a lazier one? |
We're americans, we're lazy.
QUIT QUESTIONING THINGS
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Armia Delvron
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| Jiub wrote: | | Scion wrote: | | Comprising controls |
What do you mean by that? If you are talking about remotes then I'd have to say that 360 remotes are the best. You can have a difference of opinion there though. |
"Give me a mouse and keyboard - or give me death."
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Crozeus
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I've had a 360 since 2006, and have not suffered the RROD. Which is peculiar, considering I leave it running for many hours.
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Armia Delvron
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It's been said that - if you know how to identify it - you should always buy an automobile manufactured on a Tuesday or Wednesday. Because the workers and quality control people are more alert (Monday people are still thinking about the past weekend and Thursday and especially Friday they're thinking about the coming weekend). So you end up getting a higher quality vehicle.
Maybe you got a Tuesday 360 and the worker on the assembly line made sure you had a proper amount of thermal grease applied to cool your processors 
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Journey
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| Crozeus wrote: | | I've had a 360 since 2006, and have not suffered the RROD. Which is peculiar, considering I leave it running for many hours. |
It could be because the space you have your 360 in is properly ventilated and not next to other electrical products.
At least that's what the tech support woman read off of her script when I got my RROD.
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Crozeus
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It's next to lots of other electrical products.
But it is well ventilated.
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Ga'nen
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I have every console listed and we even have two 360s and at one point had two PS3s. >_>
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Talen D'aar
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PS3 and PC, but my PC sucks so I barely use it for gaming anymore. I just chose PS3 on that one.
I used to play WoW on my PC, even though it was extremely laggy, but then I got a virus and had to wipe it clean. So now I just use it for the internet. I don't know about you guys but RPing and Pr0n are the keys to my heart.
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shadowball2021
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360 and PS3 
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Scion
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| Jiub wrote: | | Scion wrote: | | Comprising controls |
What do you mean by that? If you are talking about remotes then I'd have to say that 360 remotes are the best. You can have a difference of opinion there though.
I don't see it being any more difficult than using a PC. You don't even have to install the games.
I fail to see why longevity is a bad thing.
| Quote: | | Or just a lazier one? |
Maybe, but a lot of the best inventions out there are centered around convenience, which in effect is laziness as it cuts out steps.
| Quote: | | Upgrade a PC every month, or upgrade a console every 4 years, You decide. PC's are just plain more expensive and more inconvenient and clunky. |
True, but you have to worry about "the red rings of death" with an xbox. They don't always last that full 4 years. That would be my only complaint against xbox, a computer does usually last a longer time. |
To Jiub:
Controller
Every important PC game has the option of using KB/M OR controllers. All I need is a converter and I could play most PC games with a 360 or PS3 controller. Options.
Difficulty
I was implying GAME difficulty. FPS's have gotten easier, RPG's have gotten easier, platformers are all but dead. Games aren't difficult anymore except for a select few.
Longevity
I meant games are LOSING longevity. Compare KOTOR, Mass Effect, or Jade's Empire to Baldur's Gate. Baldur's Gate has 20x the content WITHOUT the mods that have been created by the tools that came with the game. Modifications aren't even legal on consoles yet.
Dakoth:
Crysis on high settings on a $600 PC. If a PC can run Crysis, it's fine for at least 4 years. Not to mention PC games begin $10 cheaper and have the most reliable online.
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Armia Delvron
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| Scion wrote: | Longevity
I meant games are LOSING longevity. Compare KOTOR, Mass Effect, or Jade's Empire to Baldur's Gate. Baldur's Gate has 20x the content WITHOUT the mods that have been created by the tools that came with the game. Modifications aren't even legal on consoles yet. |
I assume you're exaggerating for effect? I think Knights of the Old Republic's average "first time through" gameplay time (if you're not deliberately rushing) is approximately 20-30 hours. You can add another 10 or so hours for a second play through as the opposite of whichever morality you played if you're feeling generous.
Mass Effect is a bit shorter - clocking in at 15-20 I believe.
By that logic Baldur's Gate is 300-600+ hours long? Yikes - if not an exaggeration.
Final Fantasy's still clock in at around 40 I think (again, assuming you don't rush). 60-80 if you're going for all the "extra" optional side quests. Which - I feel - is about the right level for a "complete" RPG experience.
Anything over 100 starts to push it - no matter how good the game is. In my opinion. UNLESS the experience is separated into multiple quests. If you have 8 campaigns that take 20 hours each - that's fine. But a single plotline lasting an equal amount of time would be tenuous "Gah! WHEN am I going to fight Sephiroth?!?!?!"
Shooters definitely seem to be suffering from that sort of decay though. I went back and tried to play the original DOOM...
My sense of nostalgia was overwhelmed only by how much I was dying 
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Darth Splinter
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None/Only PC.
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Jiub
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| Scion wrote: | To Jiub:
Controller
Every important PC game has the option of using KB/M OR controllers. All I need is a converter and I could play most PC games with a 360 or PS3 controller. Options. |
Oh, I don't know if I'd really call that an advantage for the PC over a 360 if I still like my 360 remote better, but it does somewhat cancel out the difference.
| Quote: | Difficulty
I was implying GAME difficulty. FPS's have gotten easier, RPG's have gotten easier, platformers are all but dead. Games aren't difficult anymore except for a select few. |
I might have to agree with you there a little. I have noticed that I rarely die anymore once I get in the right sort of rhythm. At least on single player. Except for most sports games, you still have to work a while at those.
| Quote: | Longevity
I meant games are LOSING longevity. Compare KOTOR, Mass Effect, or Jade's Empire to Baldur's Gate. Baldur's Gate has 20x the content WITHOUT the mods that have been created by the tools that came with the game. Modifications aren't even legal on consoles yet. |
KOTOR lasted me a while when I did a lot of side quests, Mass Effect was too short (but it does have a good replay value), and I've never played Jade's Empire. They could be longer, but not all PC games are all that much longer.
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Sirak Sazen
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Wii: I got the Wii for Christmas last year. It's not as crappy as people make it out to be. I'd like to see more "hardcore" games come out. I crave third-party content!
Xbox 360: I got the RROD.... twice. I sold my second Red Ring infected console to start investing in a car. Pretty lame reason to sell a 360, but I had some stinkers as far as games go and no online.
Playstation 2: This thing is God. My first console that I bought after my PS1 became outdated. My favorite console ever. I hope that PS3 can live up its predecessor in the coming years.
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Scion
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| Armia Delvron wrote: | | Scion wrote: | Longevity
I meant games are LOSING longevity. Compare KOTOR, Mass Effect, or Jade's Empire to Baldur's Gate. Baldur's Gate has 20x the content WITHOUT the mods that have been created by the tools that came with the game. Modifications aren't even legal on consoles yet. |
I assume you're exaggerating for effect? I think Knights of the Old Republic's average "first time through" gameplay time (if you're not deliberately rushing) is approximately 20-30 hours. You can add another 10 or so hours for a second play through as the opposite of whichever morality you played if you're feeling generous.
Mass Effect is a bit shorter - clocking in at 15-20 I believe.
By that logic Baldur's Gate is 300-600+ hours long? Yikes - if not an exaggeration.
Final Fantasy's still clock in at around 40 I think (again, assuming you don't rush). 60-80 if you're going for all the "extra" optional side quests. Which - I feel - is about the right level for a "complete" RPG experience.
Anything over 100 starts to push it - no matter how good the game is. In my opinion. UNLESS the experience is separated into multiple quests. If you have 8 campaigns that take 20 hours each - that's fine. But a single plotline lasting an equal amount of time would be tenuous "Gah! WHEN am I going to fight Sephiroth?!?!?!"
Shooters definitely seem to be suffering from that sort of decay though. I went back and tried to play the original DOOM...
My sense of nostalgia was overwhelmed only by how much I was dying |
I am not exagerrating. From talking to Baldur's Gate 2 vets, they say the main game w/ sidequests is about 200+ hours. That doesn't include all the mods that are provided for it through the toolset released through the game, which could (Technically) add enormous amounts of playtime.
Another example is to compare Morrowind to Oblivion. Which was bigger? Which had more to do?
Bioshock compared to System Shock 2. Which had a better RPG element? Which was more difficult?
I am no way implying that these games are bad (I loved Bioshock, KOTOR, and Mass Effect, never got around to Jade's Empire), but they could have been much more if developed for the PC exclusively. I spent more time on the Neverwinter Nights 2 character creation screen than playing the single player of COD4 in it's entirety.
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Dakoth
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Crysis on max settings for PC: 600 Dollars
Gears of War 2 on max settings for Xbox 360: 200 Dollars
I don't think shorter games is in any way something the console market is responsible for. Its more the game market in general. Games have become massively more expensive and risky to produce. Baldur's Gate 2 was being made over a decade ago, and thus was much cheaper to produce.
Nowadays in a recession, publishers can't risk devoting time to making sprawlingly long RPG's, not when Triple A title sequels and MMOs stand as safer, more profitable and quicker to pump out.
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Scion
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| Dakoth wrote: | Crysis on max settings for PC: 600 Dollars
Gears of War 2 on max settings for Xbox 360: 200 Dollars
I don't think shorter games is in any way something the console market is responsible for. Its more the game market in general. Games have become massively more expensive and risky to produce. Baldur's Gate 2 was being made over a decade ago, and thus was much cheaper to produce.
Nowadays in a recession, publishers can't risk devoting time to making sprawlingly long RPG's, not when Triple A title sequels and MMOs stand as safer, more profitable and quicker to pump out. |
I'd still take the PC, you don't even get a HDD with the $200 version and the PC does much more than play games that justifies the extra price.
If length isn't a problem, than look at series that have been killed off by dumbing them down for consoles:
Deus Ex
Thief
Mechassault
Doom
Quake
And look at games that seem to have lost content over time:
Fallout
Elder Scrolls
Baldur's Gate (The hack and slash ones, as fun as they were)
Wolfenstien
The only company that has seemingly stayed consistant is Blizzard, and that's for obvious reasons.
You also fail to see how by lacking mods game companies manage to make even more money off of you. Look at DLC, it's one of the most broken things ever and very few companies get it right.
Microsoft is a evil genious when it comes to this. Want to get in the Halo 3 beta? Go buy Crackdown. Want to get the newest map pack? Gotta buy Halo Wars. PC developers were never like this. Bioware and Obsidian released toolsets for people to make thier own storylines using the in game engine. Epic has always release development kits with it's games, which is why Unreal 2k4 has such a huge following, because of the massive amounts of mods. I can't count how many different game variants there are for Valve's CS, which can be bought for $20. My TF2 addicted friend (On 360) was surprised when playing my copy to play about 10 maps he had never had before.
If these companies had a choice or the means, they would allow this stuff for free on consoles. But since Sony and Microsoft know they can make a buck out of it, they do. (Sans Valve, who's latest L4d update will come for FREE on PC and 360, bless there souls).
/endrant
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Armia Delvron
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Well that's PARTLY because it's much harder to push a High Definition 3D environment art limits as far as it is to push 2D ones.
You can get around this by whole or partly reusing locations (Fallout 3 did this) or by literally just going over the same territory over and over by giving excuses to go back to old locations (Farcry 2 did this, from what I hear), but - for whatever reason - reusing 3D environments stands out A LOT more than 2D does. My suspicion is it's because we're designed to recognize 3D objects in our real lives, but I'd entertain other theories.
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Lord Vexen
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| Jiub wrote: | | KOTOR lasted me a while when I did a lot of side quests, Mass Effect was too short (but it does have a good replay value) |
Maybe the main storyline...but thats only what 5 or so planets...if you explore every possible planet and do every possible quest...then it takes you forever. I easily got 30+ hours with that.
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Jiub
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| Lord Vexen wrote: | | Jiub wrote: | | KOTOR lasted me a while when I did a lot of side quests, Mass Effect was too short (but it does have a good replay value) |
Maybe the main storyline...but thats only what 5 or so planets...if you explore every possible planet and do every possible quest...then it takes you forever. I easily got 30+ hours with that. |
Yeah, I guess the reason ME didn't last me very long is I didn't really like most of the side quests and didn't do many of them.
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