Archive for Rebels A Star Wars Roleplaying Community
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Dakoth
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The time for change is now.Ok, look I'm going to start off by putting a few things out there about the state of forum canon, starting with the positive. No offense is intended to the authors of the current canon, and none should be taken. I'm just saying some things that need to be said. The forum canon can be fun to read. Once, maybe twice. And, sadly, that’s about it.
The current forum canon is more akin to a history book than a story. Everything from 1,000,000,000 BBY to 1,000,000,000 ABY is mapped out nice and neatly. That’s great for writing a book, horrible for RPing. It completely limits the scope of what people can do in a canon RP, where the storyline can go, and how the characters can evolve and progress. You shouldn't have to sit down and say "Oh man, this would be really cool, but its a shame my character cant do it since he turns to the dark side in a month."
What the site needs is a storyline that evolves, something that makes you want to get up and check the latest RP and see just what direction its taking. Having an open-ended future where anything can happen, where the next year is completely unknown is the only true way to RP, to let your character mature and grow through experience and trials, through successes and failures. The current system disallows that. A simple treaty can’t explode into a full out faction war, because the timelines say it can't. A cantina meeting can't become the backdrop for a Jedi-Sith conspiracy because the Forum Canon says there is no conspiracy.
This, to me, is a major failing and responsible for the mostly abominable state of RP's on the site, something unacceptable for a site that is in the first place made for Role playing.
So then, keeping this in mind, there is only one logical course of action: Major renovation of the current system. I know this may seem radical and unfair to those whose stories form the basis of the timeline, but I'm not saying those stories should be deleted, but perhaps made non-canon, or adapted to fit with an evolving timeline. Just because it isn't "official" just yet, doesn’t mean its any less of a piece of literature.
I propose we do away with all the constrictions of the current timeline, all the meaningless dates and scripted events, and forge our own story. Perhaps we could begin from the start of the order, or even start with the flight of the Jedi to their new temple on "Planet X". It would make for the perfect opportunity for the Jedi to make their own story and would be a much needed change of pace.
Don't think this would be the end of noncanon RP's either. Much as expressed in other threads, we could have the current Roleplaying section split up into Canon and Noncanon so everyone is happy.
C'mon, what do you have to lose? Let’s leap into the unknown. This may seem radical, but trust me, it’s been a long time coming.
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Jaden Nightsaber
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Yes, yes, yes!
| Dakoth wrote: | | What the site needs is a storyline that evolves, something that makes you want to get up and check the latest RP and see just what direction its taking. Having an open-ended future where anything can happen, where the next year is completely unknown is the only true way to RP, to let your character mature and grow through experience and trials, through successes and failures. The current system disallows that. A simple treaty can’t explode into a full out faction war, because the timelines say it can't. A cantina meeting can't become the backdrop for a Jedi-Sith conspiracy because the Forum Canon says there is no conspiracy. |
Amen to this in every way. I can't say how many people have developed their character thanks to RPs. This would work out great!
| Dakoth wrote: | | I propose we do away with all the constrictions of the current timeline, all the meaningless dates and scripted events, and forge our own story. Perhaps we could begin from the start of the order, or even start with the flight of the Jedi to their new temple on "Planet X". It would make for the perfect opportunity for the Jedi to make their own story and would be a much needed change of pace. |
This man is great. We need to stop dealing with the normal Sith attack Jedi and use our wonderful minds. And with something like this it could just spark something great!
| Dakoth wrote: | | Don't think this would be the end of noncanon RP's either. Much as expressed in other threads, we could have the current Roleplaying section split up into Canon and Noncanon so everyone is happy. |
Kill the Jedi Temple forum and make that one of these!
It all makes sense people. I'm in for this 100%.
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The Chosen One
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Or you could just be like me and never put a time line for you character. That way he can do whatever he wants in a canon RP! 
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Dakoth
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| The Chosen One wrote: | | Or you could just be like me and never put a time line for you character. That way he can do whatever he wants in a canon RP! |
Unfortunately you refuse to RP =/
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The Chosen One
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| Dakoth wrote: | | Unfortunately you refuse to RP =/ |
It is basically the same as doing a fanfiction, except I have no control over the story.
If I was to ever RP again, it would be in Jedi Academy for obvious reasons.
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Dakoth
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| The Chosen One wrote: | | Dakoth wrote: | | Unfortunately you refuse to RP =/ |
It is basically the same as doing a fanfiction, except I have no control over the story.
If I was to ever RP again, it would be in Jedi Academy for obvious reasons. |
Thats where you're wrong. Anyone has the ability to steer the story around, thats the beauty of RP'ing. You can write your own story, but still be suprised by it.
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Lady Saber
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Ohh...Dakoth has put his mind to good use, I see.
I like it.
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Dork of Mordork
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So do I. Put it into action!
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Anakin
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Congrats Dakoth, its a rave.
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Xander Vos
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Well... we do have an open ended timeline.  Everything after Reldar Prime is up in the air AFAIK, and anything can happen. RPs can be non-canon and aspects still added to people's characters.
I'm not sure what you're suggesting though...
You say things can't happen because the Timeline doesn't mention it. That's ridiculous. You expect the timeline to be able to predict events?? No. Create a believable, logical RP, that takes place during the right year for the character's involved. (Like, not 4,000 BBY and expect it to be canon for Koras), and chances are it will become canon. i.e Jewel of the Force I and II.
I completely disagree with doing away with a timeline and events, it is a structure for the board, from which people's own personal story's can develop and involve. Yes I agree all those "Grakula joins the Order" bits of the Timeline of NPC characters is stupid, but its to make a 4,000 year old Order believable. Perhaps start a timeline when we move to the new planet and have that as your timeline that you desire, but certainly don't non-canonise the current one.
We have a lot to lose, such as the hundreds of hours work put into creating the stories that are canon and you are considering rubbishing.
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Dakoth
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Now how did I know you would dissent?
I'm not talking about small-scale events, where evil Joe average and friends go out and get blown away on some insignifigant planet by a few Jedi, I'm talking about major stuff, things that wouldn't fit in with the current timeline. Wars, catastrophies, uprisings and the like. You know, the things that made the movies worth watching? They can't happen with the current system.
The way it is now, you can pretty much predict the ending of any canon RP just by looking at the timeline to see who dies at a later date. Wheres the suspense? wheres the fun?
I'm not talking about no timeline. I'm talking about a new timeline. Our current one dosen't exactly make for edge-of-your seat reading.
Who says your stories are any worse off if they aren't canon? With all the canon fanfictions and utter lack of canon RP's, the timeline is being dictated on a pretty selfish level, as a fanfiction has only one author. I want to see our story come from a conglamarative effort.
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Xander Vos
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So you're saying RPs that include planet-destroying machines should be allowed because they make more fun? Right...
Yup, and reseting the timeline won't help, it'll just take another few months and we'll be back to where we are now.
And neither would a new one.
FFs that ARE canon, such as Shadow's, Acrimonus', and mine, allhave equal views from several characters. Granted mine focusses a lot on Xander, it also has Lyn, Padme, Wes, and others as main characters. If you think its selfish for the FF writers, consider the amount of time and effort put into writing them. If ytou think everyone should be allowed to chip in, fine, encourage more people to write canon FFs.
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Lord Lanik
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WOHOO!@!! YAY DAKOTH!!! PARTY AT LONDOS!!!!
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Darth Shadow
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Actually, no change is required. Anyone who wishes the elemental surprise of roleplaying can simply wait until they feel ready to submit information to the Timeline.
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Dakoth
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| Xander Vos wrote: | | So you're saying RPs that include planet-destroying machines should be allowed because they make more fun? Right... |
Actually, yes, yes I am. Ever heard of Star Wars? I do believe they had this little thing called the Death Star.
| Quote: | | Yup, and reseting the timeline won't help, it'll just take another few months and we'll be back to where we are now. |
Months? No. Try something to the effect of ___ABY: Jedi Temple founded. Done.
| Quote: | | And neither would a new one. |
And you can tell this how? It seems like we're getting into predetermination now.
| Quote: | | FFs that ARE canon, such as Shadow's, Acrimonus', and mine, allhave equal views from several characters. Granted mine focusses a lot on Xander, it also has Lyn, Padme, Wes, and others as main characters. If you think its selfish for the FF writers, consider the amount of time and effort put into writing them. If ytou think everyone should be allowed to chip in, fine, encourage more people to write canon FFs. |
Consider the time and effort he says. Please don't tell me you'd be against change because of that. The point I'm trying to make is that right now static fanfics occupy all of our history. More canon fanfiction isn't the answer here, less is.
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Lord Embeion
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I may finally return to the site.
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Adenn
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Awesome idea.
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Xander Vos
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| Dakoth wrote: | | Xander Vos wrote: | | So you're saying RPs that include planet-destroying machines should be allowed because they make more fun? Right... |
Actually, yes, yes I am. Ever heard of Star Wars? I do believe they had this little thing called the Death Star. |
OK, I understand, so you're saying everyone should get their own private Death Star and fgo for destruction parties around the Galaxy blowiung half the known Galaxy away? Thats what will happen if you want RPs such as Tremor of Ryloth as canon.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | Yup, and reseting the timeline won't help, it'll just take another few months and we'll be back to where we are now. |
Months? No. Try something to the effect of ___ABY: Jedi Temple founded. Done. |
Yep, and as we RP, stuff will be added to the timeline, and suddenly the entire first ten years are taken up with RPs. *gasp* No new RPs can be canon in that ten years! We must reset the timeline again!
| Quote: | | Quote: | | And neither would a new one. |
And you can tell this how? It seems like we're getting into predetermination now. |
Because absolutely any timeline will ruin the suspense. That's the point of a timeline, it lays out events in a clinical fashion, leaving no room for suspense or surprise.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | FFs that ARE canon, such as Shadow's, Acrimonus', and mine, allhave equal views from several characters. Granted mine focusses a lot on Xander, it also has Lyn, Padme, Wes, and others as main characters. If you think its selfish for the FF writers, consider the amount of time and effort put into writing them. If ytou think everyone should be allowed to chip in, fine, encourage more people to write canon FFs. |
Consider the time and effort he says. Please don't tell me you'd be against change because of that. The point I'm trying to make is that right now static fanfics occupy all of our history. More canon fanfiction isn't the answer here, less is. |
Yes, I am. You're saying we have nothing to lose, but you only say that because you haven't been involved in creating a timeline, or writing a FF. They take a hell of an effort, let me tell you that, and now you want to carelessly toss that away in your own ignorance. Why? What the bloody hell do you have against Fanfictions? Every fanfiction that is canon draws from other people's desires. "Who wants to be in my FF?" sound familiar? People get ideas and characters from the people around them, pretty much making it an RP authored by one.
Fine, if you're against FFs, then I'll say this for the last time: Everything after our move from the Temple in 86 is completely EMPTY. NOTHING is there. No FFs, no RPs. If you want to go RP happy, you've got infinity time free there, no need to ruin what we've already got.
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Kenthar Larrisis
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Yea dude that feakin pwns. It would make RPs so much more interesting. You wouldn't know what would happen until the end. We could all help develop the new story and shape it with whatever we want. It would truly make this site into a Rolepaying site. Awesome idea. 
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Xander Vos
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FYI, I know of three RPs at the moment that are running where I have no clue what will happen: Battle of Ragoon VI, INvasion of Bakura, and The War Game. And oh! None of them are canon. Perhaps thats the answer Dakoth?
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Lord Lanik
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It's the Game of War....not the War Game....
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Xander Vos
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Whatever. 
But my point is, by pushing for all RPs to be canon you TAKE AWAY THE SUSPENSE. Not add to it. Because within months, I garantee you, the entire Timeline will be clogged full again, because RPs can be written and played out much faster than FFs can be written. And then you're just back where you started, except with a poorer quality history.
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Dakoth
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| Xander Vos wrote: |
OK, I understand, so you're saying everyone should get their own private Death Star and fgo for destruction parties around the Galaxy blowiung half the known Galaxy away? Thats what will happen if you want RPs such as Tremor of Ryloth as canon. |
Ok, stop being stupid. You know as well as I do that everyone wouldn't have private death stars. What you're saying is something to the effect of "A democracy would never work because everyone would vote for themselves." Well, as it turns out everyone dosen't vote for themselves and everyone wouldn't immediately go crazy and build themselves a death star.
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Yep, and as we RP, stuff will be added to the timeline, and suddenly the entire first ten years are taken up with RPs. *gasp* No new RPs can be canon in that ten years! We must reset the timeline again! |
Again, being stupid. No one would have much of a desire to go back if we had a compelling story going forward. And we wouldn't have to reset the timeline, because we'd actually HAVE a timeline filled with things that were actually interesting, as opposed to the current "Jedi X joined the council".
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Because absolutely any timeline will ruin the suspense. That's the point of a timeline, it lays out events in a clinical fashion, leaving no room for suspense or surprise. |
So then, would you suggest having no timeline at all?
| Quote: | | Yes, I am. You're saying we have nothing to lose, but you only say that because you haven't been involved in creating a timeline, or writing a FF. They take a hell of an effort, let me tell you that, and now you want to carelessly toss that away in your own ignorance. Why? What the bloody hell do you have against Fanfictions? Every fanfiction that is canon draws from other people's desires. "Who wants to be in my FF?" sound familiar? People get ideas and characters from the people around them, pretty much making it an RP authored by one. |
Yeah, I wasn't involved in its creation, and neither was 99% of the community. Thats a problem.
Writing a massive fanfiction solo Does take a lot of effort, and thats precisely why not everyone has the time to do it. Roleplaying is much easier and can go at the rate of a few posts a day, that way everyone can participate.
"RP authored by one" Sounds like a dictatorship to me =/
Xander, please don't call me ignorant for no reason, I stated that I knew what I was proposing was radical and would upset some people, therefore I am not ignorant to you concerns.
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Darth Shadow
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Enough, let's revist some points:
1.) No one says roleplays cannot be canon. Dakoth, your issue seems to be that having a character with a birth, life and death on the Timeline takes away from the 'real' experience.
Solution: Don't document a character's life on the Timeline until you have roleplayed your heart out.
2.) The Timeline is a huge investment of the time and talent of multiple people. To forget that is to allow unregulated experience. When Kuat is destroyed in one person's roleplay and the next person comes along wanting to host a roleplay on Kuat, there would be absolute mayhem. Let the Timeline do its job as a reference so people can see the scope of our reality.
3.) No one forces users to put information on the Timeline. Some roleplays have canonical value, some don't. It may not be so overt, but users can place events that take place in roleplay on the Timeline if it doesn't conflict with anything already there set by another user. First come first serve.
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Grand Vizier Tarna
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| Xander Vos wrote: | | FYI, I know of three RPs at the moment that are running where I have no clue what will happen: Battle of Ragoon VI, INvasion of Bakura, and The War Game. And oh! None of them are canon. Perhaps thats the answer Dakoth? |
Siege of Bakura, thank you. Get the techincal term right.
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Lord Lanik
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THREE CHEERES FOR WILL!!!!!!!!!!!! 
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Anakin
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9,000,000 BBY to 9,000,000 ABY, thats alot of rps and fanfics. Theres so much possibilites in a open ended galaxy which does not have check points such as "The Dude War ends" or "The Kroprulan Empire beats back the Yuuzhan Vong easily." (Mind you those were just made up examples.)
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Dakoth
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| Darth Shadow wrote: | Enough, let's revist some points:
1.) No one says roleplays cannot be canon. Dakoth, your issue seems to be that having a character with a birth, life and death on the Timeline takes away from the 'real' experience. |
There is no 'real' experience, thats precisely the problem. Every roleplay right now is set in some tiny constrained period, held back by rather, well, faceless events such as Anakin said, the Dude war etc. How many Jedi have been involved in creating what would appear to be such a major event? None? One? Two?
| Quote: | | Solution: Don't document a character's life on the Timeline until you have roleplayed your heart out. |
I'm not talking about small born died dates, I'm talking about the utter lack of major events and changes in the storyline. Its like trying to be suprised reading yesterday's weather report.
| Quote: | | 2.) The Timeline is a huge investment of the time and talent of multiple people. To forget that is to allow unregulated experience. When Kuat is destroyed in one person's roleplay and the next person comes along wanting to host a roleplay on Kuat, there would be absolute mayhem. Let the Timeline do its job as a reference so people can see the scope of our reality. |
Brian has already said he believed that the timeline he made is nowhere near perfect and definitely has room to improve. Just because something took hours dosen't mean it should be left alone and held as sacred. For example, take the early US history. To sum it up, a bunch of guys get into a stuffy room, and spend hours upon hours drafting the Articles of Confederation. A few years later we discover they're pretty much worthless. So of course, we did the sensible thing and made a new governmental charter, the Constitution. What would have happened if we had kept the articles just because they took a long time? Well, for starters there would be no "United States of America."
| Quote: | | 3.) No one forces users to put information on the Timeline. Some roleplays have canonical value, some don't. It may not be so overt, but users can place events that take place in roleplay on the Timeline if it doesn't conflict with anything already there set by another user. First come first serve. |
Aha, so you're saying if you don't like it, get out? Thats not very fair to the newer users? I suppose we're supposed to totally forget them and create some kind of elitist Forum Canon organization? =/
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Lord Embeion
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| Xander Vos wrote: | | Dakoth wrote: | | Xander Vos wrote: | | So you're saying RPs that include planet-destroying machines should be allowed because they make more fun? Right... |
Actually, yes, yes I am. Ever heard of Star Wars? I do believe they had this little thing called the Death Star. |
OK, I understand, so you're saying everyone should get their own private Death Star and fgo for destruction parties around the Galaxy blowiung half the known Galaxy away? Thats what will happen if you want RPs such as Tremor of Ryloth as canon.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | Yup, and reseting the timeline won't help, it'll just take another few months and we'll be back to where we are now. |
Months? No. Try something to the effect of ___ABY: Jedi Temple founded. Done. |
Yep, and as we RP, stuff will be added to the timeline, and suddenly the entire first ten years are taken up with RPs. *gasp* No new RPs can be canon in that ten years! We must reset the timeline again!
| Quote: | | Quote: | | And neither would a new one. |
And you can tell this how? It seems like we're getting into predetermination now. |
Because absolutely any timeline will ruin the suspense. That's the point of a timeline, it lays out events in a clinical fashion, leaving no room for suspense or surprise.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | FFs that ARE canon, such as Shadow's, Acrimonus', and mine, allhave equal views from several characters. Granted mine focusses a lot on Xander, it also has Lyn, Padme, Wes, and others as main characters. If you think its selfish for the FF writers, consider the amount of time and effort put into writing them. If ytou think everyone should be allowed to chip in, fine, encourage more people to write canon FFs. |
Consider the time and effort he says. Please don't tell me you'd be against change because of that. The point I'm trying to make is that right now static fanfics occupy all of our history. More canon fanfiction isn't the answer here, less is. |
Yes, I am. You're saying we have nothing to lose, but you only say that because you haven't been involved in creating a timeline, or writing a FF. They take a hell of an effort, let me tell you that, and now you want to carelessly toss that away in your own ignorance. Why? What the bloody hell do you have against Fanfictions? Every fanfiction that is canon draws from other people's desires. "Who wants to be in my FF?" sound familiar? People get ideas and characters from the people around them, pretty much making it an RP authored by one.
Fine, if you're against FFs, then I'll say this for the last time: Everything after our move from the Temple in 86 is completely EMPTY. NOTHING is there. No FFs, no RPs. If you want to go RP happy, you've got infinity time free there, no need to ruin what we've already got. |
I've stopped reading when I saw this.. Ok lets see...this is a RP site and frankly the RP is poodoo!
The system needs to be renewed. For the better of the site and the RP forget your Fanfics and timeline. Start a new one, I see no need to make this into a big deal. Oh and no not everyone will have there own personal Death Star moron, i've been back to the forum for less then a day and i'm already tierd of you...AGAIN!
Its called rules, there will still be rules. Are you scared for change..? Why the hell do you ALWAYS have to find something messed up with EVERYTHING.....Look all of the Council agree's EVEN Saber agrees. Let the idea go forward and youll see how much it betters the site. So what you can still write fanfics..Might not be canon..but there still a fanfic, people are still gonna read em'. You can make new canon ones, also this would seperate us from alot of sites..Our OWN timeline not following the basic one set.
im so dang flustered right now I cant even type straight or right...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!So much more to say but..I dont want to get banned..today.
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Anakin
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I recall Xander saying this or in some of form like this "That after 86 ABY or something or other, every thing is left blank for rps and fanfics." But at at 86ABY most member's characters are dead or very old according to their birthdate.
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Darth Shadow
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| Quote: |
Darth Shadow wrote:
Enough, let's revist some points:
1.) No one says roleplays cannot be canon. Dakoth, your issue seems to be that having a character with a birth, life and death on the Timeline takes away from the 'real' experience.
There is no 'real' experience, thats precisely the problem. Every roleplay right now is set in some tiny constrained period, held back by rather, well, faceless events such as Anakin said, the Dude war etc. How many Jedi have been involved in creating what would appear to be such a major event? None? One? Two?
Quote:
Solution: Don't document a character's life on the Timeline until you have roleplayed your heart out.
I'm not talking about small born died dates, I'm talking about the utter lack of major events and changes in the storyline. Its like trying to be suprised reading yesterday's weather report.
Quote:
2.) The Timeline is a huge investment of the time and talent of multiple people. To forget that is to allow unregulated experience. When Kuat is destroyed in one person's roleplay and the next person comes along wanting to host a roleplay on Kuat, there would be absolute mayhem. Let the Timeline do its job as a reference so people can see the scope of our reality.
Brian has already said he believed that the timeline he made is nowhere near perfect and definitely has room to improve. Just because something took hours dosen't mean it should be left alone and held as sacred. For example, take the early US history. To sum it up, a bunch of guys get into a stuffy room, and spend hours upon hours drafting the Articles of Confederation. A few years later we discover they're pretty much worthless. So of course, we did the sensible thing and made a new governmental charter, the Constitution. What would have happened if we had kept the articles just because they took a long time? Well, for starters there would be no "United States of America."
Quote:
3.) No one forces users to put information on the Timeline. Some roleplays have canonical value, some don't. It may not be so overt, but users can place events that take place in roleplay on the Timeline if it doesn't conflict with anything already there set by another user. First come first serve.
Aha, so you're saying if you don't like it, get out? Thats not very fair to the newer users? I suppose we're supposed to totally forget them and create some kind of elitist Forum Canon organization? =/
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In the order I feel like remembering:
They are not constraints. They are guiding forces set in place to show what else is going on in the galaxy during your roleplay. Kind of a "derrrr" point.
I've worked with fourteen in my story, thanks.
The Timeline is not a storyline, Dakoth. It is a repository of many roleplays and stories alike. Elements from both make it up.
Perfection is impossible. If you dare to insinuate I strive for it, you're mistaken and misguided.
The Articles of Confederation were designed with a loose confederation in mind and not a true republic. In case you didn't know, I am basically in love with history. Our Timeline was not designed to limit but assist the scope of what goes on.
Not at all. You can spin my words all you want but the fact of the matter reamins that the Timeline was designed by a great number of talented people in order to be a definitive list of events. If you want Coruscant's sun to go nova and it is widely accepted in fiction or roleplay, fine! dandy! But, just because it is roleplayed it is not entitled to canonical value if a character has in place the following year: Lives on Coruscant, for example.
My own story is not of the highest canonical value. None of the fan fiction is. As it stands, none of the roleplays are either. It's an absolute give and take and it's worked.
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Dakoth
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| Quote: | | They are not constraints. They are guiding forces set in place to show what else is going on in the galaxy during your roleplay. Kind of a "derrrr" point. |
Guidelines and constraints seem quite synonomous, no?
| Quote: | | I've worked with fourteen in my story, thanks. |
Who? And that number is still nowhere near to the forum's population.
| Quote: | | The Timeline is not a storyline, Dakoth. It is a repository of many roleplays and stories alike. Elements from both make it up. |
If by many roleplays you mean two, then yes. -_- What I'm trying to say is that while we do have a timeline, theres no true storyline present.
| Quote: | | Perfection is impossible. If you dare to insinuate I strive for it, you're mistaken and misguided. |
I made no such assertion, I do not care to lash out at anyone personally here, I'm just stating things that I believe need to be enacted to better the Forum canon.
| Quote: | | The Articles of Confederation were designed with a loose confederation in mind and not a true republic. In case you didn't know, I am basically in love with history. Our Timeline was not designed to limit but assist the scope of what goes on. |
And that loose confederation could not exist as a powerful entity in the world. But more to the point, the timeline of course did not have the intention of limiting the material that gets put into RP's, but it inadvertantly did by making people more obsessed with meeting fanfic events than going out on a limb and creating something unique in an RP.
| Quote: | | Not at all. You can spin my words all you want but the fact of the matter reamins that the Timeline was designed by a great number of talented people in order to be a definitive list of events. If you want Coruscant's sun to go nova and it is widely accepted in fiction or roleplay, fine! dandy! But, just because it is roleplayed it is not entitled to canonical value if a character has in place the following year: Lives on Coruscant, for example. |
And thats exactly what it is, a definitive list of events that leaves no room for other major events, effectively phasing out the value of canon RP in terms of anythig important.
| Quote: | | My own story is not of the highest canonical value. None of the fan fiction is. As it stands, none of the roleplays are either. It's an absolute give and take and it's worked. |
I disagree. LoES is quite commonly regarded as the "official" forum canon upon which everything else has become based upon. This screams highest canonical value to me.
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Darth Shadow
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Why were you even in my post to begin with?
| Quote: | | Guidelines and constraints seem quite synonomous, no? |
A guideline is something to consider for canonical value. A restraint is what may occur during a ban or suspension. There is a clear difference elemental to regulation.
| Quote: | | Who? And that number is still nowhere near to the forum's population. |
Brian, Lisa, Lanik, Xander, John, Lyn, Padme, the rest of the Council's in there, various others mentioned throughout the course in accordance to the timeline in what they were doing in the galaxy. Active population and active contributors to the timeline are different.
| Quote: | | What I'm trying to say is that while we do have a timeline, theres no true storyline present. |
The Timeline is showing what happens when. It glorifies characters because, since you brought up the new user, they have no idea what's going on if they have no reference to view another character's accomplishments.
| Quote: | | I'm just stating things that I believe need to be enacted to better the Forum canon. |
It's a nice idea. But as has been established, the Timeline serves to be a quick reference not a Thou Shalt Not list.
| Quote: | | And that loose confederation could not exist as a powerful entity in the world |
Actually, it worked fine in all fields except regulating international trade.
| Quote: | | making people more obsessed with meeting fanfic events than going out on a limb and creating something unique in an RP. |
You could do both. It is not my fault that only two roleplays have been submitted for canonical review. It's not anyone's fault here but the participants for not inputting more data occuring during the roleplay for Timeline consideration. Take that into account and your problem shall be solved.
| Quote: | | And thats exactly what it is, a definitive list of events that leaves no room for other major events, effectively phasing out the value of canon RP in terms of anythig important. |
Examples?
| Quote: | | I disagree. LoES is quite commonly regarded as the "official" forum canon upon which everything else has become based upon. This screams highest canonical value to me. |
Okay. You can disagree. But, the following is not canonical and I bloody well like it that way:
The destruction of the Prophet's home and subsequent killing of them all leading to the total disbanding.
The death of Divious.
The fact that Byss was returned from a massive asteroid field into a cohesive planet.
There's actually not a society known as the Watchers in charge of everything.
There is no canonical value assigned to most of the characters I have invented.
A good story can be talked about as gospel, but I assure you my work is far from. It may or may not have the largest concentration of canonical elements because I spend a lot of my time working with people on both boards to align to their characters, but it's probably less canonical than you have been led to believe.
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Scion
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While i do like the idea of a moving timeline where rank and such actually matter, and this would make the forum more than a place for me to go when Im bored.
i dont see how this would end up working out. if we desired to continue with Dakoth's plan, we would want RP's to be open. This means many tiny factions(ORE or w/e its called now) and people who honestly dont want to be Jedi/Sith. face it, if there were only Jedi and Sith, they wouldn't be very special would they be, though this could be countered with the fact that whenever a character 'dies' in a RP, a new Profile by that user could be made, allowing for limitless options.
Back to my original point, people would like to be more than Jedi and Sith, but this site has already shown that adding multiple factions would ruin the point of the forum. Even with the new system TCO and Dakoth are developing, Bounty Hunters, dark Jedi, etc. all get medium attributes, which would steer people away from being something more than jedi or Sith, which cannonically aren't even at war. (THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE!!!!!!)
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Darth Shadow
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We're not at war yet.
Enemy of my enemy is my friend applies in all instances.
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Dakoth
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| Darth Shadow wrote: | | Why were you even in my post to begin with? |
I'm sure as you've noticed, the edit and quote buttons are right next to eachother.
| Quote: | | A guideline is something to consider for canonical value. A restraint is what may occur during a ban or suspension. There is a clear difference elemental to regulation. |
Not restraint, constraint. Guidelines tell a person what to do and how it should be done. Constraints are effectively the same thing, except the word is used more in a negative connotation, whereas Guidelines are generally thought of as more posotive.
| Quote: | | Brian, Lisa, Lanik, Xander, John, Lyn, Padme, the rest of the Council's in there, various others mentioned throughout the course in accordance to the timeline in what they were doing in the galaxy. Active population and active contributors to the timeline are different. |
Rive and Jaden aren't
But regardless, the reason the active population isn't active in the contributions to the timeline is because its a pretty daunting setup. You have to go in and write a fanfiction that agrees with everything else and dosen't change anything major. With the introduction of more highly valued canon RP's, the process would become much more gradual and easy to handle. You could go with the flow of posts until able to stand on your own feet, and still have a fun time with it.
| Quote: |
The Timeline is showing what happens when. It glorifies characters because, since you brought up the new user, they have no idea what's going on if they have no reference to view another character's accomplishments. |
Thats all well and good for the timeline, but what I'm trying to say is that it vastly inhibits the storyline from progressing anywhere. And as for references to accomplishments, the character profiles that people have made serve that function quite adequately.
| Quote: | | It's a nice idea. But as has been established, the Timeline serves to be a quick reference not a Thou Shalt Not list. |
It is not serving its intended purpose though, and has in effect become a "Thou Shalt Not"
| Quote: | | Actually, it worked fine in all fields except regulating international trade. |
Not quite just trade. It failed to regulate anything really as it had no authority, its biggest incumberance being that states were able to accept and refute laws as they pleased. This effectively disallowed the Federal Government to collect taxes.
| Quote: | | You could do both. It is not my fault that only two roleplays have been submitted for canonical review. It's not anyone's fault here but the participants for not inputting more data occuring during the roleplay for Timeline consideration. Take that into account and your problem shall be solved. |
Nor did I say it was. They don't imput more from Roleplays because of the amount of trouble it currently takes to make an RP canon.
Very well. Anakin and I were discussion an RP regarding the ORS, and thought it would be interesting if the ORS instigated a large cale Jedi-Sith war with the interest of profiting from the mayhem by acting as the Talon Kaddre-like organization it was meant to. But as Anakin so bluntly put it to me, such an idea being canon would never fly.
| Quote: | Okay. You can disagree. But, the following is not canonical and I bloody well like it that way:
The destruction of the Prophet's home and subsequent killing of them all leading to the total disbanding.
The death of Divious.
The fact that Byss was returned from a massive asteroid field into a cohesive planet.
There's actually not a society known as the Watchers in charge of everything.
There is no canonical value assigned to most of the characters I have invented.
A good story can be talked about as gospel, but I assure you my work is far from. It may or may not have the largest concentration of canonical elements because I spend a lot of my time working with people on both boards to align to their characters, but it's probably less canonical than you have been led to believe. |
Shame, I rather liked Byss too.
It is the largest canonical entity as of current, the only one beginning to rival it being Xander's Destiny Eclipse. Other than that the well-known canon material with regards to the Jedi comes to an abrupt halt.
I'd be willing to bet that most people on the forum believe that every word of LoES is definitive canon. And as you may or may not know, beliefs are often times more important than actual facts.
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Darth Shadow
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You're blowing hot air around now. My points have been said, so I'm done. Best of luck with however this turns out but I've offered my solution. Feel free to contact me about LoES though.
Xander can have the mantle if he wants. It's a lot of work.
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Dakoth
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Very well then. I made what I wanted clear in the first post. I'm not trying to discredit the work of everyone thus far, but I honestly believe change is needed if the Roleplays here are to stay interesting constantly.
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Darth Shadow
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What corrolation do interesting and canonical have?
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Dakoth
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With RP's? Currently, none. In the future perhaps the two terms will be thought of as synonomous.
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Darth Shadow
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Well, splitting the hair a little more:
Canonical roleplays are possible if the person in charge of Character A chooses to make the elements as such. We cannot police or reward the lazy.
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Dakoth
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But we also shouldn't force people to go through an inordinate amount of work and time during thier recreation to make something canon.
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Darth Shadow
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We don't force them. The Timeline (for the last time) is a collection of what else has happened during the era. There can be more than one event per year. 
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Dakoth
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I do think we are missing eachother's point here. Perhaps thats my fault.
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Jaden Nightsaber
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| Dakoth wrote: | | Rive and Jaden aren't |
For the record, I am in one chapter if I recall correctly. Even though my canon Character is long dead.
Anyway, should we vote on Dakoth's new system?[/quote]
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Dakoth
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| Scion wrote: | While i do like the idea of a moving timeline where rank and such actually matter, and this would make the forum more than a place for me to go when Im bored.
i dont see how this would end up working out. if we desired to continue with Dakoth's plan, we would want RP's to be open. This means many tiny factions(ORE or w/e its called now) and people who honestly dont want to be Jedi/Sith. face it, if there were only Jedi and Sith, they wouldn't be very special would they be, though this could be countered with the fact that whenever a character 'dies' in a RP, a new Profile by that user could be made, allowing for limitless options.
Back to my original point, people would like to be more than Jedi and Sith, but this site has already shown that adding multiple factions would ruin the point of the forum. Even with the new system TCO and Dakoth are developing, Bounty Hunters, dark Jedi, etc. all get medium attributes, which would steer people away from being something more than jedi or Sith, which cannonically aren't even at war. (THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE!!!!!!) |
Which is why I want to start a few wars. Also, as with the factions, People could play more than one character. Its been done before.
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Darth Shadow
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| Quote: | | Its been done before. |
Then all of this isn't necessary, is it?
If the precedent is there, no one's going to stop anybody.
Also, wars are fine. I like wars. They're interesting. The only one I know of is the Yuuzhan Vong and Kroprulu/Byss conflict from 49-72.
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Dakoth
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| Darth Shadow wrote: | | Quote: | | Its been done before. |
Then all of this isn't necessary, is it?
If the precedent is there, no one's going to stop anybody.
Also, wars are fine. I like wars. They're interesting. The only one I know of is the Yuuzhan Vong and Kroprulu/Byss conflict from 49-72. |
Not done here
You like wars? Good, then lets start one, it would coincide quite well with the Jedi reloaction of thier temple. Heck, we could even make new characters if people dont want their fanfic guys to die.
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Scion
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| Dakoth wrote: | | Darth Shadow wrote: | | Quote: | | Its been done before. |
Then all of this isn't necessary, is it?
If the precedent is there, no one's going to stop anybody.
Also, wars are fine. I like wars. They're interesting. The only one I know of is the Yuuzhan Vong and Kroprulu/Byss conflict from 49-72. |
Not done here
You like wars? Good, then lets start one, it would coincide quite well with the Jedi reloaction of thier temple. Heck, we could even make new characters if people dont want their fanfic guys to die. |
Now this might need a new thread. though great idea, maybe a war to test the new combat system...
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Scion
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Sorry for double post
I have seen active storyline RP forums before and the can work, SWU did this, but then again they had multiple factions on a single forum.
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Darth Shadow
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I'm game for starting a new war. 
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Dakoth
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It sounds like quite the compromise. Keep the current history as it is, but throw the future to open ended RP's, starting with a little explosive conflict
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Darth Shadow
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Well, that's what it's always been so long as it doesn't contradict the past. But, as I said, first come first serve. So, the users in the roleplays get to the Timeline first, have their information put up and bam! canon.
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Anakin
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This is surprising.
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Dakoth
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It should be fairly easy for it not to. People can make new characters if it does quite easily. This is what I really want to see, a canon evolving plot in RP's.
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Lyn Korak
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Well, I think it would be cool. That's just what I poped in to say.
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Xander Vos
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(For the record: Wow, Will and I arguing on the same side. )
I had an awesome idea while pondering away this at school. (It came to me in English while I was too bored to focus on our poetry if you must know. ) After 86 ABY, wipe the slate clean, and split into two timelines, one entitled Bakuran Order Timeline, which is our current one and would contain any events for the time from 4,000+ BBY to 86 ABY, and have a Planet X Order Timeline from 86 ABY onwards for any future RPs.
As to Anakin's point, maybe you should get around to the thing species are best at - mating. Xander's done it, why not you? I now have four awesome characters who will be in their primes at around 90 ABY.
Dakoth - Jeff's story is a lot more awesome than mine, I'd come in at a distant third.
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Dakoth
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I have no clue who Jeff is, but I'm assuming hes a haxx0r.
I Think I'd be game for a new timeline that would be solely for canon RP's. If nothing else it gives exactly what I think is needed, open ended Roleplays, while preserving the site's handful of lucrative fanfics before that time.
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Xander Vos
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Jeff is Acrimonus.
The only issue remains is the fact that Shadow has brought up: What if I make an RP on Kessel, which results in the destruction of Kessel? That's a bit unfair isn't it, because other people might want to RP on Kessel in future, or be born there after its destruction, or die there after its destruction. After a while the Guidelines you're fighting against in the current timeline would destroy the new timeline.
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Dakoth
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Well if we keep the canon Roleplays progressively going forward, that won't be an issue. And if they really want to, theres always noncanon RP's.
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Dork of Mordork
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Lol Alex.
Well, the Aldamars are a little stuck. Koras can just live forever, and that'll work.
I know, Koras will have a brother, and it will go on from there.
Lol, jk. He's got a sister, that's all he needs...
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Dakoth
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Remember, you can always make completely unrelated characters.
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Jaden Nightsaber
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W0rd up. Or clones. We all know that's possible.
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Darth Shadow
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Yes. Joruus C'Boath was a nice clone.
Progressive roleplays are too hard to regulate. I'm still for the first come first serve if not majorly suckish policy.
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Dakoth
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I dunno, if nothing else I'd like to try a progressive one.
And about that war... Any ideas on why its being fought? I have a few myself.
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Darth Shadow
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If you hate Sith/Jedi relations being cozy, a schism could occur and then boom.
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Dakoth
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I was thinking along the lines of a disgruntled Anakin provoking such a war to benifit his silly little ORS.
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Xander Vos
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| Dakoth wrote: | | Well if we keep the canon Roleplays progressively going forward, that won't be an issue. And if they really want to, theres always noncanon RP's. |
Yes it is, that's exactly how it WILL become an issue, because once Kessel is gone, its gone for good, and that's unfair. I am really against this system, and not just as Dakoth says because of my bias. Its completely unreliable, restrictive, and unfair.
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Dakoth
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Ok I want to RP on alderaan in 15 aby.
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Darth Shadow
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It's gone...
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Xander Vos
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| Dakoth wrote: | | Ok I want to RP on alderaan in 15 aby. |
Oh, but wait, its gone, so you can't. Tough luck, see you later, good bye, end of story, full stop period. That's what your idea would result in for a lot of planets.
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Dakoth
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Exactly. Its gone. I guess we should go de-canonize episode 4 huh?
And really, when did I say "We should blow up every planet we touch"? The way you're talking, it sounds like you think the only thing thats fair is to keep the galaxy in a nice neat little box where nothing ever happens. I guess now I cant kill of a character because someone else might want to meet them in a fanfiction huh?
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Darth Shadow
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Dakoth, look at the roleplayers. How many planets do you think aren't going to be blown up as a fitting end?
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Dakoth
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Near 99.9% I'd say. We have magic edit buttons nowadays.
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Xander Vos
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| Dakoth wrote: | Exactly. Its gone. I guess we should go de-canonize episode 4 huh?
And really, when did I say "We should blow up every planet we touch"? The way you're talking, it sounds like you think the only thing thats fair is to keep the galaxy in a nice neat little box where nothing ever happens. I guess now I cant kill of a character because someone else might want to meet them in a fanfiction huh? |
No, you shouldn't kill off a character because the character's creator may want their character to die when THEY want it to die, when they have done everything the creator has wanted it to do.
And, as Shadow said, how many RPs like Ragoon VI and Seige of Bakura and so on are not going to end with one faction destroying the planet either by orbitally bombarding it so it no longer supports life, or setting off a series of chain reactions that destroy the planet?
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Dakoth
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I was talking about one of my own characters. Under what you're saying he's apparently immortal since someone might want to sit down and have a drink with him in 4,000 ABY.
I can think of one RP to date which has killed a planet.
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Anakin
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You expect Anakin to have babys!?  Sorry, no heir is taking his position, hes too greedy.
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Lyn Korak
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Anakin, I thought you ahd a husband! Oh, my. j/k.
I know how to keep the Korak's going.
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Xander Vos
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| Dakoth wrote: | I was talking about one of my own characters. Under what you're saying he's apparently immortal since someone might want to sit down and have a drink with him in 4,000 ABY.
I can think of one RP to date which has killed a planet. |
And how many more do you think will occur if we all but encourage it?
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Dakoth
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Well seeing as the one that it did occur in was stated specifically as not being canon, I don't see the threat of widespread planet destruction.
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Xander Vos
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Planets, maybe, but characters? I could start a canon RP with Ben Vos, and have him cut down in two posts, and never be able to use him again, without even the slightest oppurtunity to avoid his death. That would suck.
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Dakoth
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| Xander Vos wrote: | | Planets, maybe, but characters? I could start a canon RP with Ben Vos, and have him cut down in two posts, and never be able to use him again, without even the slightest oppurtunity to avoid his death. That would suck. |
It also wouldn't be allowed to happen. It would be classified as godmodding and deleted. Don't forget, even though you are Roleplaying with other people and evolving your characters in a story you don't have full dictation over, you're still the boss when it comes to your guy living or dying. (Of course, you can't be ridiculous and charge into the heart of the enemy lines by yourself as a youngling expecting to live. That would be abusing the system.)
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Xander Vos
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Still... I think its fine as it is, with canon RPs if they are continuital, and canon FFs if they are continuital.
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Lyn Korak
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| Dakoth wrote: | | Xander Vos wrote: | | Planets, maybe, but characters? I could start a canon RP with Ben Vos, and have him cut down in two posts, and never be able to use him again, without even the slightest oppurtunity to avoid his death. That would suck. |
It also wouldn't be allowed to happen. It would be classified as godmodding and deleted. Don't forget, even though you are Roleplaying with other people and evolving your characters in a story you don't have full dictation over, you're still the boss when it comes to your guy living or dying. (Of course, you can't be ridiculous and charge into the heart of the enemy lines by yourself as a youngling expecting to live. That would be abusing the system.) |
Make multiple characters and do it multiple times.
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Xander Vos
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| Xander Vos wrote: | | Still... I think its fine as it is, with canon RPs if they are continuital, and canon FFs if they are continuital. |
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Scion
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Xander, your argument, IMO, makes Rping pointless. If we don't make RP's have more control over what's canon and what's not, why not just make this a fanfiction site? I could play video games instead of just typing for absolutely nothing, but if it was part of a moving story, typing just makes me feel like one of the authors of one big book.
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Dakoth
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| Scion wrote: | | Xander, your argument, IMO, makes Rping pointless. If we don't make RP's have more control over what's canon and what's not, why not just make this a fanfiction site? I could play video games instead of just typing for absolutely nothing, but if it was part of a moving story, typing just makes me feel like one of the authors of one big book. |
And thats exactly what I mean, right now roleplays have no incentive to join, this would provide one to a great many users.
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Jiub
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| Dakoth wrote: | | Scion wrote: | | Xander, your argument, IMO, makes Rping pointless. If we don't make RP's have more control over what's canon and what's not, why not just make this a fanfiction site? I could play video games instead of just typing for absolutely nothing, but if it was part of a moving story, typing just makes me feel like one of the authors of one big book. |
And thats exactly what I mean, right now roleplays have no incentive to join, this would provide one to a great many users. |
I agree.
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Xander Vos
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| Scion wrote: | | Xander, your argument, IMO, makes Rping pointless. If we don't make RP's have more control over what's canon and what's not, why not just make this a fanfiction site? I could play video games instead of just typing for absolutely nothing, but if it was part of a moving story, typing just makes me feel like one of the authors of one big book. |
Fine, you can do that if you want, me, I couldn't care less if the RPs were canon or not, I join for the brilliant story and the adventure involved. Making it canon or non-canon really doesn't change that in an RP.
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Dakoth
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| Xander Vos wrote: | | Scion wrote: | | Xander, your argument, IMO, makes Rping pointless. If we don't make RP's have more control over what's canon and what's not, why not just make this a fanfiction site? I could play video games instead of just typing for absolutely nothing, but if it was part of a moving story, typing just makes me feel like one of the authors of one big book. |
Fine, you can do that if you want, me, I couldn't care less if the RPs were canon or not, I join for the brilliant story and the adventure involved. Making it canon or non-canon really doesn't change that in an RP. |
If anything, it'll make them more of a brilliant story, as it'll be a continuous saga.
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Scion
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And Dakoth, TCO, and I (and others) feel that it needs more structure than
Jedi A kicked Sith B but Sith A managed to block Jedi A for him.
I just don't get how that is fun at all.
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The Chosen One
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| Scion wrote: | | Xander, your argument, IMO, makes Rping pointless. If we don't make RP's have more control over what's canon and what's not, why not just make this a fanfiction site? I could play video games instead of just typing for absolutely nothing, but if it was part of a moving story, typing just makes me feel like one of the authors of one big book. |
Another thing that can make RP's more innovative, is the proposed RP combat system Dakoth, Scion, and myself are working on.
I haven't RP'd since I first joined the site. It didn't take me long to realize that there would be no clear victors in fights. I remember when I sent multiple TIE Interceptor squadrons at someone, and they just blasted through them all. I remember when I said I had the killing blow on someone, to just let them say "but he had the strength to 'type /cheatz hax godmode on', he then killed TCO".
That isn't fun imo.
I'd rather just do fanfictions where I can make my own story how I want.
There is no real point for me to RP, I can just go play MBII. If I wanted to RP, I could just join an RP server in JKA.
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